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  1. #1
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    Default Need help with IDE hard drive!

    I recently got a PC from my mother-in-law, she gave it to me. It's a Dell Dimension 2400, with the 2.4GHz celeron CPU.

    My issue is, I upgraded my RAM from 768MB to the max, 2GB (1GB x2), the sticks are fine. But I felt that the PC should have been running faster than it does. The RAM did speed it up, just not as dramatic as I thought it would.

    So I tested the HDD (a Hitachi Deskstar HDS722540VLAT20 40GB IDE ATA/100). I believe that it's the final cause of the slowness. Web pages (especially images) renders slowly. The test that I done with HD Tune are as follows:

    Transfer Rate:
    4.2MB/sec, min
    53.9MB/sec, max
    AVG: 38.7MB/sec

    Access Time: 19.8ms (slow compared to similar drives)
    Burst: 26.3MB/sec
    CPU: 13.6

    I ran the test 2 more times, they were similar. The longer into the test, the further the graph drops. There are no bad blocks, I checked that with HD Tune & the option on Mini Tool Partition Wizard Home Edition.

    So, I have this other HDD, that I have on hand. It's a Maxtor DiamondMax 120GB IDE ATA/133 HDD. It does run at 5400 rpm, but thought that being that I had it, I would install it. But here's the problem, and the nature of my thread.

    I've read that ATA/100 & ATA/133 are compatible. But the installed HDD has 2 jumpers installed. The Maxtor has only 1. And it goes further than that. The location of the pins are different.

    DeskStar pin location:

    1357*
    24680 (the * means no pin). This is my numbering system, doing the best that I can to describe the issue. The 2 jumpers are currently set on 1&2, and 5&6.

    Maxtor pin location:

    13579
    2*680 (the * means no pin)

    I would buy another HDD, but most available are refurbs, and being disabled, I'm running tight on cash each month. Mainly due to medical expenses. Between my Medicare premium, monthly doctor visit & meds, that's almost $400 monthly. I don't want to throw $50 for a possible piece of junk, if I can help it.

    Like I said, I've read that these drives are compatible, but the 133 may be reduced to 100 by the MB. That's OK, I just want a faster working HDD.

    Can anyone help me to understand & interpret these different HDD pin issues, so that I can get the jumpers in the right place? This isn't a Windows 8 issue, but I need help to get this right.

    Many thanks to anyone who can help me with this issue.

    Cat

  2. #2
    Senior Member TechnoMage's Avatar
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    Cool Re: Need help with IDE hard drive!

    This would be much easier if I were there, to read the jumper diagram on top of the drive. It will tell you exactly how to set the jumpers.

    The Deskstar is the old IBM Deskstar, which most of us Tech's called the "DeathStar", for good reasons.
    It's only 40 gigs, too small for todays computing needs. I'd only use that as a scratch disk for possibly "Backups" etc.

    The Maxtor is a newer drive (most likely) and should be compatible with your motherboard. Again, the map on label on top of the drive will tell you how to set the jumpers. I've looked through all my HD's and I only have one Maxtor, IDE, 40 gig drive. The top label clearly tells how to set the one jumper.
    All the rest of my drives, not installed inside a case, are SATA. No help there!

    If I had to use an IDE drive in a system today, I would most likely go back to the IDE to SATA adapter and the SATA controller card. I did this stuff a lot when I first got into using SATA drives. At the time SATA drives first came out, I had only an IDE capable motherboard.
    Now that I have the SATA II mobo, I have those little adapters laying around all over the place. lol
    Attachment 218
    IDE drive, with IDE to SATA adapter. (two-fan drive cooler is also attached)
    To use the adapter, the drive must be jumpered "Master".

    I do have one drive with the jumper label on the end of the drive, not on top.

    Right now, Win-8/64 is on a 500 gig, SATA III drive, but the drive only runs at SATA II speed, since my motherboard is only SATA II compatible.

    Just one word on that Motherboard/CPU combo.
    The Celeron was the lowest price and also the lowest performance CPU that Intel made.
    You won't get a lot of performance out of that cpu, no matter how much ram you have, because it has little to no Cache-ram on the CPU itself.
    (AMD also had a CPU like that, called the 'Sempron' )

    That whole computer was designed on the Cheap, to sell Cheap.

    I've worked with PC's like that, quite a bit, and you're just very limited on how much performance you're ever going to get, just by the way it was built.
    So I wind up tweaking and tuning Windows to provide the least amount of loading on the CPU.

    Bring that thing on down here and I'll fix it all up for you. OK?

    TM

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  4. #3
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    Default Re: Need help with IDE hard drive!

    I've been doing some reading, and found that you're right, it was an elcheapo PC.

    As far the HDD that I have, it's dead (the Maxtor). I used it one time within a enclosure for a backup drive, now Windows (on my regular desktop) can't format it. Mini Tool Partition Wizard Home Edition reports it as a "bad drive". So, that's it for that.

    I did find a cheap one, an 80GB WD IDE ATA/100, from a top rated seller on eBay. The reviews were excellent for the seller, so I went with that one, for $27.

    Now, I'm going to have to fix something else before I can even install that one onto the system. There are 2 CD ROM's on it, only 1 works, it reads, but won't boot from it. I tried a variety of disks to boot from, no go. So, now I'm going to have to find a way to move my data from the HDD that's on it, to the one that I bought.

    I'm kind of leery about placing that new HDD in that enclosure that I bought, it may have been the reason that the Maxtor went dead. It spins, but won't format. What I'm hoping for is, that somehow, I can use one of those IDE cables & power cables for the CD, and transfer it that way.

    This PC that was given to me is rapidly becoming one big PITA!!!

    Cat

  5. #4
    Senior Member TechnoMage's Avatar
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    Cool Re: Need help with IDE hard drive!

    Some drives, especially the 7200rpm versions, do run a bit hot. Then put them inside an enclosure and you wind up with roasted hard drive.
    I learned years ago (many years ago) that HEAT KILLS! In one summer, some years ago now, I trashed three WD drives in my main system. The first one, I got out of a defunct computer. When it failed it was so hot I could not touch it. I got a replacement from WD, refurbished of course and that only lasted about a month. So I RMA'd that one and the replacement, another refurb, was so scratched up it looked like someone had kicked it across a concrete floor. I gave that drive away and it only lasted less than a month before it shot craps.

    So WD is on my Sh** list. I'll take a Seagate, Samsung or Toshiba, but no more WD's.

    Also, as a result of my experience with that one WD, being so hot, I developed a way to use the "Two Fan" coolers to keep all my drives at room temperature.
    Attachment 219
    If the cooler is bolted down directly to the drive there is insufficient room for the air to escape and an "Air Dam" results and cooling suffers. Adding the 1/4" standoffs allows for greater air flow and cooling greatly increases.

    I try my best to never run any hard drive without a cooler attached.
    Since implementing this technique several years ago now, I've not lost even one hard drive.
    Attachment 220
    If I remember correctly, this was a Dell, where I had prepared a new drive with cooler to go back into the case. I'm cloning it from a new XP setup I'd created on the (temporary) drive on the left.
    When done, this PC got shipped up to Illinois for a friend's mom.

    I love modding things, to improve performance and extend longevity.

    Cheers!
    TM

  6. #5
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    Default Re: Need help with IDE hard drive!

    Except for one, which I feel was Newegg's lack of proper packaging, I feel that WD Drives are OK. I have a 1TB Caviar Black that runs quite well, it was a replacement for the defective one.

    But my best HDD's have been those Samsung HD103SJ 1TB ones. They are not as noisy as the Caviar Black, and run cooler. I have 2 of those. And were packed far better than the Caviar Black that I bought from Newegg.

    However, I do lack real experience using IDE desktop HDD's. I have used the laptop ones, but never had to swap one out. I've also installed new OS's on them, plenty of times.

    Which brings up a point. How am I supposed to get the backup for my current setup onto this new HDD, when the PC won't even boot by CD? It may come down to placing the new HDD within that backup enclosure, and restoring it, using my main PC (which is SATA). I also have a practically new Dell laptop DVD/CD +RW, but not sure if it will run on the desktop's connections.

    Somehow, someway, I'll get the job done. It may not be easy, but life was never promised to be.

    Cat

  7. #6
    Senior Member Maxx's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need help with IDE hard drive!

    On the cd problem.
    You said there are 2 in the comp.
    Disconnect the bad one and set the jumper on the good one to master and plug the end connector on the ribbon cable into it.
    Then make sure your boot order is set to cd first and try it.

  8. #7
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    Default Re: Need help with IDE hard drive!

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx View Post
    On the cd problem.
    You said there are 2 in the comp.
    Disconnect the bad one and set the jumper on the good one to master and plug the end connector on the ribbon cable into it.
    Then make sure your boot order is set to cd first and try it.
    There are jumpers on CD drives, too? I didn't know that. Thought it was a plug & play deal.

    What have I gotten myself into here?

    Cat

  9. #8
    Senior Member Maxx's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need help with IDE hard drive!

    It's easy.
    There should be a label or markings to indicate the settings, if not go to the manufacturers website for the info.
    The jumpers will be between the power and ribbon cables most likely.
    Is the working drive the top or bottom one?
    If the bottom it is most likely set as the slave.

  10. #9
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    Default Re: Need help with IDE hard drive!

    I have to check to make sure, but I think it was the bottom one that could read CD's. After reading your prior post, I shined a flashlight in there, and seen jumper setting options on both optical drives. What I need to do is figure out which one is the RW one, and hope that it works. One is RW, one is read only.

    They both power up, open & inserts the CD. I need to try out & see which one works to be positive. Evidently, someone has worked on this PC, as it originally came with 1 optical drive. What would be really great would be to remove the non-RW one, and use the space for a HDD. I know that mounting kits are available for it.

    Cat

  11. #10
    Senior Member TechnoMage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need help with IDE hard drive!

    It would probably be cheaper to just bring that mess on down here and let me fix it for you.

    Yes, if you know which drive is not working at least disconnect it from the power and data cables even if you don't physically remove it.
    Yes, you could put a hard drive in that bay, but then you'd need the appropriate stand-off brackets for it.
    like this:
    Attachment 255
    This is my Win-8/CP/64bit drive, sitting in the top 5.25" drive bay, on stand-offs, and with a two-fan cooler attached. Currently, this is a 500GB Seagate SATA III drive.

    The remaining CD drive should be set to Master.
    Looking at the back of the CD drive, there is three sets of pins that you can put the little black jumper on.
    You want to put the jumper on the right hand set of pins. Every CD drive is the same, as to the jumpers.
    There will also, be a legend on the case as to what each jumper position is. Once the drive is jumpered to Master, then you need to use the connector on the END of the cable, not the one that's away from the end.

    This stuff isn't difficult, if you just follow a few simple rules.

    TechnoMage

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