View Full Version : Why does Windows 8 RP turn itself on?
08-06-2012, 10:17 AM
I've had this issue for over 2 months, after a full shutdown, during the night (between 3 & 7AM), if my HDD with Win 8 RP is plugged in, it turns itself on. This is the only OS that has ever done this to me. No one, other than myself, uses this desktop.
My notebook that has Win 8 RP, along with 7 Pro, doesn't do this.
Is anyone else having this experience, & the cause identified? One shouldn't have to remove their HDD at bedtime, or switch out to one with an earlier version, to prevent this.
08-06-2012, 12:10 PM
Is there a Wake On Lan setting in your router, or a scheduled task, like defrag or WU or something set up to run at night? Normally the only things that can do this are the above.
08-06-2012, 01:19 PM
Don't you know that a Desktop PC that has powered itself down is not OFF? It's actually still ON, just waiting for someone to hit that little "Power ON" button so it can start back up (Boot Up) again.
The PSU is still cranking out +5vdc to the motherboard and the Power ON Switch.
To really turn off any Desktop PC, you must remove the power from it, completely, totally, 100%.
Use a power strip between the PC and the wall plug, in a location that you can easily reach.
Mine sits at the back of my computer desk. Everything that works with the PC is plugged into that strip.
The strip plugs into my 585W UPS, which plugs into a professional surge protector, which is plugged into the wall.
After the PC has gone through its Power Down routine, turn OFF the switch on the Power Strip, thus removing all power from the PC.
The PC will be much safer with all power removed from it.
I try to get all my customers to do this. It's what I myself have done for over 30 years.
08-06-2012, 02:24 PM
Ted, I have the Wake on Lan (or whatever the term) disabled in the BIOS, this was the first step taken to resolve the issue, I found that through a Google search. WU is scheduled to notify me of updates, so that's not it. I set the auto maintenance to 6PM, but it's not turning on at that time (from a shutdown, though it does from Sleep).
TM, yes I'm for real! This is the first OS in the 12 years that I've owned a computer to turn on by itself. Mine is plugged directly into a APC brand 350VA (200 Watts) UPS. I know it's small, but it meets my needs, anytime a storm causes the lights to flicker, my computer isn't affected, it along with my routers & phone works fine. Keeps the current flow steady, I was told. It must, to give a $75,000 guarantee against damage to components it's protecting.
I agree with you that not only a computer, but any electronics that doesn't need electricity 24/7, should be on a power strip & it turned off when not needed. My TV & stereo is always done this way unless I'm watching/playing them (very seldom), but I know firsthand that it's safer. Because years ago, in the early 90's, my TV got messed up during a storm, but I can't say for sure if it came from the power outlet or the cable connection, because it was the tuner that got fried, the PSU was fine. I mean, it still turned on & off with the remote, but the tuner no longer worked. The tech felt that the cable connection was the cause, because it was the only part that had to be replaced. Anyway, lesson learned there! I bought a power surge protector for the power, & an inline cable surge protector from Radio Shack.
I'll do what you suggested, I have a couple of those power strips on hand. BTW, speaking of that UPS, does the battery need to be fully drained/recharged once in a while to stay healthy? Most batteries does. It's 2 years old, & has only kicked in a few times, no longer than 30 minutes or so.
The next one that I buy will probably be larger, as I plan to add a 24" 1080p monitor, to make my notebook into a desktop through it's HDMI port. Probably at the end of the year or the beginning of next, that's where Windows 8 Pro is going to be installed. The MSI notebook gives far less problems than the HP desktop does. I just need a large screen to use it for long periods (over an hour), my eyesight, which was never perfect, is not as good now. The MSI also has a 1GB NVIDIA DDR3 video card, along with Intel's built in, so the monitor should look good.
Being that it's not going to be a cheap one, I want it protected also.
Thanks for your suggestion, this will solve the phantom power on issue.
08-06-2012, 03:24 PM
I had a great reply all typed up here, and then it disappeared! Cheeech!
It also included an apology.
Your little UPS probably uses a Gel Cell of 3 to 10 Amp hour.
Something like one of these.
BackUPS BK300X116 - APC (American Power Conversion) - UPS Battery Replacement - Batteries Plus (http://www.batteriesplus.com/products/569-0/3832-UPS-Batteries/71210-APC-%28American-Power-Conversion%29/BackUPS-BK300X116/1.aspx)
OK, on the PC, in the Bios is a Power management setting. Make sure it's not set to come back ON after a power loss. OK? I set mine that way on purpose, so when I turn on my power strip, the PC, monitor, speakers, etc., all come on at once. That saves a lot of wear and tear on the individual power switches, and my fingers as well. :)
Set yours to "Stay Off", at least till you start using a power strip to turn off your system.
I actually have five UPS's. My smallest one, a 300w only backs up my telephone answering machine and one digital clock, and one small lamp. Another 500 w, backs up my Cable Modem and 300N Router, plus my Magic Jack device.
My PC is backed up by a 585w UPS with digital readout and auto shutdown circuitry.
My BIG 600w UPS, is powered by two large car batteries with a combined power reserve of 1500+ Amp Hours.
During the last test, it ran my TV and Cable box for seven hours, before it ever started beeping. Not bad, for a UPS that was given to me as junk, over ten years ago.
I also have an 1800 watt inverter with two large deep cycle batteries, that can run all my kitchen appliances.
Sorry.....didn't mean to get so far off topic. Check that power setting in your bios.
08-06-2012, 08:21 PM
The Power setting in the BIOS is set to stay off after a power loss. I've done a check of what options that I do have there (HP neuters their BIOS's badly), all is set to optimized values. No wake on LAN also. There's not even a setting there to configure a UPS, there is on one of my OS's (XP Pro), but I guess because there's no BIOS option, the OS doesn't even "see" that I'm hooked to a UPS, so I can't configure it.
Needless to say, HP's computers are really messed up. Carly Fiorina ruined that corporation by making HP's home computers Compaq's (generic ones), with the HP brand on them. HP was a good brand before her arrival, she left the place in a mess, & got a severance pay of $20 Million as a reward.
So this power strip, if I understand you correctly, once installed, I need to go into the BIOS & enable the computer to turn on after power is applied? Just still shut down the normal way. I'll give that a shot. Though attached to a UPS, one shouldn't have to deal with this, it provides backup power & surge protection, all in one.
I'll certainly be glad when Windows 8 Pro will be here on 10/26, because then, it's going to be on my notebook. I may continue to run RP on my desktop until 01/15/13, or until I get my new monitor, which ever is first. Weird, 8 CP ran on here better than RP has, though I do have to admit RP is far better. CP was an excellent desktop though, much faster, & far less resources consumed compared to Win 7.
If I had that monitor now, I'd go ahead & wipe this install clean & reinstall Windows 7 cleanly from my recovery partition back onto my desktop, as though Win 8 RP uses less resources, it's also beginning to be a PITA to upkeep. A reinstall requires 3 to 5 attempts (with good media) & a recovery with a image goes into an endless repair cycle. CP didn't do any of this, it's just a driver related issue (the built in wi-fi card) that gives the BSOD's upon installing RP. Problem is, being an AIO type of PC (difficult to remove the card), & still in warranty, it's best to leave it alone.
Fortunately, my notebook is newer (built on Q1/11), mainly Intel based, & goes to show that one can only expect so much out of HP computers. Just as with the many HP branded printers having issues, the computers are also.
Can't make chicken salad out of chicken s**t!
08-07-2012, 06:23 AM
On that UPS, do you have the option to connect it to your PC via a USB cable and run the Power Chute software to automatically shut down the PC during a power failure?
* The larger UPS's do come with that option, along with the USB cable and the software on CD.
I have that option on my own PC's UPS, but I don't use it, because my PC is never on, Un-Attended. If there is a line power failure, I'm immediately aware of it and I have plenty of time to finish what I'm doing, close down programs and shut down my PC.
I just didn't need that one extra program running in the background all the time.
Because of the number of things that can cause a computer to come on by itself, including some failure on the motherboard, it's prudent to just remove all power from the PC when you're not using it. One little $5 power strip does the job nicely.
08-07-2012, 11:22 PM
No, I don't have that option, this APC device was bought at Wal Mart, for less than $50. At the time, all that I was looking for was a way to safely shut down my desktop in the event of a power failure. As far as that goes, it's met my needs, & still does. I have time to shutdown, & my router/phone is still powered. That beeping can be annoying at night, but at least the phone still works.
It's not worth replacing the battery on. Newegg often runs promos for much higher capacity models for in the $75 to $150 range, as my needs has grown since then. Didn't have the VoIP device then, nor the phone plugged in to it either. It does still give me good, stable power, though. During the many recent thunderstorms that has battered the area, the power has blinked a lot, but my desktop hasn't. Those surges are bad on electronics, computers, routers & phones included. Once I replace the one that I have, I may still use it for notebook protection, in another area (to move some of these cords out of here).
The good thing about these UPS devices are the "extra" outlets, not for backup power, but to protect devices from these surges. My computer desk also came with a built in power strip of some kind, about 10 to 12" wide & as much as deep, with a lit cut on/off switch for all devices. I use that for my printer, monitor, lamp, backup drive, & one of my notebook's PSU use. It must has power surge protection of some sort, as it gives a up to total of $50,000 for any device that gets fried while plugged in to it.
But, it & my UPS are plugged into the same outlet, there's many devices plugged there, & no other nearby outlet. Which is why I stated that upon replacement of this UPS, I'll plug it in somewhere else for protection to one of my notebooks.
These type of devices are good to have. And you're correct, these power strips doesn't have to cost much. Some users may need a higher rated one, depending on the number of devices attached, & more importantly, how much current is going through it. Still, these only costs a little more.
08-08-2012, 05:15 AM
When picking a UPS (UN-Interruptible Power Supply) or "Battery Backup", there are three important criteria to consider.
One: How much power will the UPS need to supply during a line power failure? What wattage?
Two: How long will the USP need to supply that power? Five minutes? Thirty minutes? Hours?
Three: Does the device being backed up require a true Sine-Wave AC power?
One and Two are pretty self explaining, but # Three may require a bit of explanation.
The UPS's that we buy for protecting our home computer do not put out a true 60 cycle sine wave AC power.
They put out a 60 cycle square wave. Computers and many other electronic devices really don't care. Light bulbs, small fans and toasters don't care either. :)
But there are some devices that DO CARE and require a battery backup that does put out a true 60 cycle sine wave.
Those UPS's are not common, a lot more expensive and you won't usually find them in retail stores. Home power generators that power up an entire home are so successful because they DO put out a true 60 cycle Sine Wave power, and they can operate refrigerators and other devices that require Sine Wave power.
So for most computer users, those little UPS's that you can buy at Wal-Mart are sufficient for keeping your PC alive during those brief brownouts or short power outages. Personally, I won't waste my money on anything less than a 500va unit. That will give you about double the run time of a 300va unit. That gives you more time to finish your post to the Windows 8 forum, before you have to shut down.
Living here in the lightning capital of the western hemisphere, power outages and glitches are an everyday occurrence. Three to five thousand lightning strikes per hour are not unusual, just here in Central Florida.
A good UPS is mandatory, for someone like me who is on their computer all day long.
I hope this has been informative.... to someone....somewhere.
PS: for that someone reading this who has no idea what we're talking about, This is the actual UPS.
It plugs into the line power at the wall and then everything that touches your PC must be plugged into the UPS. The PC and monitor plug into the Battery Backup side while printers, scanners, speakers, and other accessories can be plugged into the Surge Suppressed side.
The power receptacles on one side are Surge Suppressed only, while the receptacles on the other side are actually backed up by battery power. The top of the unit is marked, as to which is which.
08-08-2012, 10:18 PM
It's been informative to me, I've bookmarked the page for future reference, for when I buy another one, probably mid next year. The monitor has to come first, as I have doubts about my current desktop & Windows 8. No Hyper-V for one, BSOD's another.
The notebook meets the Hyper-V requirements & is not having driver issues. Add a 24" HDMI monitor, it'll be larger than my desktop anyway.
I knew when I bought that UPS that it wasn't top notch, but major storms are rare here. Here lately though, we've been hammered with them, & not a day has gone by (or very few) that the power hasn't blinked, or went out for a minute. My desktop never shut down, not did it flicker or dim. After a minute though, I decided it best to shut down, as this battery is going on 2 years old.
Which brings me back to that question, does these UPS batteries need to be totally drained & recharged once in a while, if only twice a year? Many batteries lose life due to being plugged in 24/7, with a full charge. I know for a fact that notebook batteries does, one who uses it as as desktop replacement (which some are) & very seldom uses the battery is killing it by leaving it in all of the time. They last longer by Fully draining/undisturbed recharging (turned off), if only once a month.
I also have no doubts that our Australian members/viewers appreciates your time explaining about the UPS, as parts of that continent gets rather bad weather. No matter the forum, it seems as though the members from there all has their UPS's, as in more than one, the type that costs the US consumer $1,200 or more (APC-3000VA). Many also has full home generators, these are probably less dependent on the these types, but some may still have them.
As far as my issue, I did what you suggested, used one of those power strips, but not as to confuse anything, left the BIOS as is, to stay powered down if the AC came on. Because I have 4 HDD's (3 others) with OS's on them, it would be a PITA to switch things around for one HDD. Plus, it's only Win 8 RP doing it, none of my other OS's are.
Windows 8 RP will be removed from the desktop on 01/15/13, or after it won't boot any longer, whichever comes first, & won't return. Had RP had performed as well as CP did (no driver issues, no BSOD's, no multiple attempts at installs before one good one punches through, a lightning quick basic desktop), I'd go for it. I don't need the first one of those tiles, working or not. The Mail & Weather app worked fine on CP & was one more than I needed (I don't like the Live Mail tile). But that's me.
I feel that Hyper-V will bring a lot to the table, & I can continue my virtualization hobby. Hopefully, there's going to be some mainstream Linux support (I've read that it will be), & mabye at least one good Windows one (an XP Mode type app, only newer). The good thing about my notebook is, that it doesn't have a phantom power switch, it stays shut down, even with 8 RP.
08-09-2012, 05:31 AM
Just a quickie answer:
The batteries in UPS's are Gel-Cells and do NOT need to be drained occasionally, like the old Ni-Cad batteries in Laptops and other devices. But they do need to be replaced every few (4-5) years.
If the UPS cannot keep the PC up for ten minutes, with NO line power, you probably do need a new battery.*
*Or maybe, the UPS and its stock battery are just not heavy-duty enough to keep your particular computer alive for that long.
A big help, to most of us who used the Big old CRT monitors, was getting a new LED monitor, that uses considerably LESS power.
But remember, every time you add another ram stick or another HD to your PC, you increase its need for power and you shorten the run-time of your UPS.
A Problem: Many new UPS's will not accept a larger battery which would give it a longer run-time. However, the OLD APC brand UPS's would take any battery as long as it was 12 volts. I replaced the two little batteries in an APC 600w UPS with two car batteries. I put the car batteries in a plastic dish pan and ran 10ga wire from the batteries to the UPS, with an inline fuse, for protection.
My aftermarket UPS batteries:
Since the batteries are Full Maintenance batteries and they are on charge 24x7, they need to be checked for fluid level about once a month. Maintenance Free batteries would not be good for this application.
Since the above picture was taken, my car battery died and I had to use one of my UPS batteries in my car. (it's nice to have a spare battery when you need one)
So when I got the 1000A replacement for my car battery, I put it in the plastic dish pan and connected it up to the UPS. It will be right there and fully charged whenever I might need it.
That gives me about 1500 amps of reserve power for my UPS. I estimate the run-time on my 600w UPS at somewhere around 10 hours. (give or take a day or two. lol )
Stay powered and stay safe!
08-09-2012, 08:53 AM
It may have ran it that long when new, but now, two years later, I don't know. As long as it continues to allow me to safely shutdown, & have steady power (no surges) it'll do until next year, when I'll have less going on. If I need to get back onto the computer, I have 2 notebooks at my disposal, one with two batteries. That SSD upgrade greatly increased battery life, by almost an extra hour, as well as runs cooler. Being that 2nd (original) HDD was no faster than with USB 3.0, I left my DVD RW drive in place, & left the drive in a USB 3.0 portable enclosure.
Thanks for the info on these type of batteries, on lower cost UPS's, they're not worth replacing. One can buy a whole new unit for the same, or slightly more. I've checked Newegg out, they have nice ones in the $100-$125 range that will meet my needs well (30-40 minute use & then some). I do want a larger one, for my modem/phone connections. As long as the cable is getting a signal, I have a phone to use. This is critical for emergencies, like 911 use. That is more important to me than running a computer for a long time during an outage.
Seems that I recall Gel-Cell batteries being in industrial use, for battery powered fork lift use, very large batteries that requires a chain hoist to swap out. Gas powered ones were prohibited in our small distribution centers.
Anyway, the power strip is working fine, & has solved the issue. No more haunted PC.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.10 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
SEO by vBSEO